okay....why the rest of you suddenly felt the need to come in here and throw your two cents in, which is nuttin' more than annoyin' spam shit (and even though i'm highly guilty of it myself) this is a decent, serious discussion we've been havin' here.....Anti, Lily, and myself.....and even some others comments have been interesting, but please, stop with the spam-shit....

anyway, i agree with Anti %100......except with his gettin' all angry like, but thatz anti for ya, so whatever.....but i agree with him......especially his comment about studyin' poetry at college.....so we seem to be on the same wavelength....

but i would like to point out that the only one who seems to be all against "negative criticism" is you Lily....and thus far your reasons seem to be that:
1. you want the poetry section to be warm and inviting
2. you feel negative criticism (constructive or not?) does nothing more than "bash" the writer, thus upsetting them...and as most here are "depressed" already, that just like putting the kitchen knife against their wrist....(how poetic of me).....and that they (the posters/writers....specifically the new ones) won't want to visit here again
3. you're sick of people complaining.....(just out of curiousity, how many people have complained)
4. you think there's a good-side to everything....which would label you as quisi-aestheticist....(is aestheticist even a word?)
5. you feel that poetry is an expression of someones emotions and the such, and thus captures who they are, thus bashing the poem is like bashing them.....also, how can one bash the way someone feels?
6. this isn't a "professional" place, this is an open-net sharing experience of sorts, so there's no need to give "professional" advice....
7. not everyone here seeks to be a "professional poet"....but rather to convey their feelings
8. did i forget anything?

anywho....like i said earlier, you rarely visit any other section of DF.....but i'm sure you're aware that the other sections are quite the battlefield, and often times are nothing more than constant bashings......and though this isn't a valid excuse by an means, but why should the poetry section be so different....although, i agree that maybe the personal attacks (namely mine, like with Ruka) was extremely uncalled for....nevertheless, to assume the poetry section will be so flowery and warm compared to the rest of DF is a lil' "farfetched" in my opinion.....HOWEVER, this still doesn't give valid reason to actually "bash" the poet or his/her poetry

also, as for all the n00bs who come in here and postin' poetry......i will grant you that givin' negative criticism might turn them off, but if they can't handle it, then fuck 'em.....especially since DF's member rate seems to be 2-4 new n00bs daily.....most of which don't even actually stay.....so again, fuck 'em.....WE ARE DF....not them.....if they become DF, then great.....but as such, and assuming they visit the other sections, they best be prepared for "bashings" and the such.....just the other day i bashed the hell outta some n00b in the music thread and he was all like "FUCK YOU, THIS PLACE SUCKS!".....well, fuck him.....these are the ways of DF, if they can't handle it, oh well....buh-bye.......but the point is, so many new peeps join here daily, and they come here to post poetry, and we (i) give them criticism....and i've been good lately, but they can't even handle that? well....psht....whatever.....besides, how many peeps "regularly" visist the poetry section as opposed to those who come in, write some shit down, then leave? a lot.....

also....this is an open-net like place, but there are thousands, maybe even millions of other forums just like this.....and of all the forums i've been to, DF has the best poetry section i've ever seen....itz popular, peeps always posting, and DF is the only place...THE ONLY PLACE where i've seen negative criticism....(i like to think i had a key part in this).....DF (in my opinion) stands out from the rest because we aren't so lovely-dovey and are real and true.....we don't want to wear plastic smiles, and certainly don't want to blow steam up someones ass for writing something pathetic....let them go elsewhere.....what does it really matter? there will always be some new n00b joining tomorrow.....plus, itz a way to weed the horrible ones from the good ones......would you rather read shit poetry over and over and over and over, constantly blowin' steam up their ass 'cause you don't want to offend them and make them feel welcome? or would you rather have someone who's talented continually post, and accept the feedback (negative or positive) and love this place as much as we do?

and even though this isn't a "professional" place doesn't mean we shouldn't excerices what expertise we do have......the poetry section is filled with great poets.....and many of us love to read what each other has to express....and if i go into say, Velvet's thread, or even your's for that matter, or someone comes into mine, they/we love to see what people have to say....but does it, or does it not, irk your bubble when all someone really has to say is "Oh, how wonderful"....wouldn't you rather love to read what someone really thinks, especially if they give a critique, or question why you wrote said piece, or what said piece is about? i know i do....and i know many of you do too......so you take that on one hand, those of us who are the regulars all accept and somewhat love one another and respect one another......yet someone new comes in, and itz BAM!...skate around on thin ice and be nice and say "Oh, how wonderful".....why? so they'll feel accepted among us? so they'll be inclined to stay? well, aren't we just lying and belittling ourselves? how are they accepted among us if we lie, or pretend to be as we really aren't? what, should we wait until they've written 20 poems before bein' truthful?

i want to weed the bad from good.....i want to be honest.......

but what are we really talkin' about here? we're talkin' about the n00bs....all those new "poets" who come in here......they're the ones who seemingly "complain" because they aren't accustomed to DF....it happens virtually in every section.....DF is a "dog eat dog" forum....and i know that doesn't give valid reason to "bash" or "respond negatively" to someone who's new or new to the poetry section, but it's just sumtin' that's in a lot of our mindsets.....like mine.....but, what i'm thinking, is i think a subform is a BAD idea honestly.....i think it would be better to revise the STICKY "NEW POETS PLEASE READ" or whatever with a WARNING! NEW POETS PLEASE READ or sumtin', and just sort of explain the poetry section to them....just tell them that there's a handful of us here who are regulars, who are comfortable with eachother, and that posting a poem might result in either postive or negative feedback.....just tell them that might be subjected to "negative" criticism....and if they think they can't handle it, then post at their own risk.....that way, if they do post, and get negative feedback, and then bitch about it, or PM a complaint to you, then you can simply be like "sorry, maybe you should have read the stick thread".....

but thatz just a thought....

anywho, i'm off to read poetry....